MASSOB to honour Isaac Boro, Ken Saro Wiwa and Orji Uzor Kalu? Uwazuruike is a disgrace to Biafran cause!
MASSOB Leader Raph Uwazuruike is a disgrace to Biafran cause!
“They were at the parlour. I went into the study room to speak with Ojukwu, Ezeigbo Gburugburu. He [Ojukwu] told me that this person [Rochas Okorocha] I brought is not a true Igbo man. ‘I will not give him ticket,’ that was what he told me. “
“I may not be the person that will achieve Biafra. God knows who will do it. . . A leader that wants to achieve everything himself is not a good leader.”
Leader of the Movement for the survival of the Sovereign State of Biafra, MASSOB, Chief Ralph Uwazuruike, is angry. And deservedly too. His, is a story of betrayals; of can of worms. From the reneging of an agreement for the succession of the late leader of the All Progressives Grand Alliance, APGA, Dim Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu by his wife, Iyom Bianca, to the selfish appropriation of APGA by a clique which he alleges, uses the party as “a cash cow” and for extortion, the tale elicits awe and grows goose pimples. “Why I am partisan now is because there was an agreement. Iyom is the legitimate successor to Ojukwu and beneficiary of his legacies.
Not anyone else. They chased the woman away and took her husband’s property”. He tells Sunday Sun in his residence in Owerri, the Imo State capital. He is not done yet, as the bile in his belly still overflows from the stench of further betrayals. He speaks of how he single-handedly made Owelle Rochas Okorocha governor in 2011, against the advice and better judgement of the late Ojukwu, and how the same man has turned his back against him and the people. In pains, he talks of the self-serving cry and ribaldry of Igbo marginalization by the leaders.
“They use marginalization as a keyword to achieve what they want in Nigeria. When they want to be Senate President they start shouting that Igbos are marginalized; Igbos have never occupied the position of Senate President. Immediately, you make them Senate President, the cry of marginalization dies,” he thunders.
He rows to his organization, MASSOB, which he founded in 1999, positing that despite the trials, “MASSOB is already a government.” And to President Goodluck Jonathan, his love and admiration for him spills over. Although Jonathan is Ijaw in the South-South geo-political zone, he insists that he sees him as an Igbo man. “Jonathan is more than an Igbo man,” he adds for effect.
Correspondingly, the MASSOB leader, has opprobrium for Ike Nwachukwu, who is a leader of the Igbo at the ongoing National Conference in Abuja.
“I prefer Umaru Dikko to Ike Nwachukwu as Igbo leader”, he argues in anecdote.
He further unveils his support plans for Jonathan in the context of the imminent 2015 election, gives his views on the entity Nigeria, Boko Haram, and other key national issues.
Excerpts…
I want to start with the leadership tussle in the All Progressives Grand Alliance, APGA, which is a party rooted in Igboland. The leader of the party, Dim Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu is gone. How do you look at the crises in the party before and after his death?
The leadership of the party is selfish. The leadership of the party is inept. They are greedy. When Ojukwu died, all of us agreed that the leadership of the party will remain in Ojukwu’s house for the sustenance of that symbol. All of us agreed that Peter Obi will be the deputy leader of that party. As a matter of fact, for eight years that Peter Obi was the governor of Anambra state, I visited him only just once. And I went with Iyom Bianca Ojukwu. And my purpose was to tell him that he should not renege on that agreement that all of us reached, that the leadership of the party will remain in Ojukwu’s stead. He told me in the presence of Iyom Bianca that he recognized Bianca Ojukwu as the leader of the party. And that he himself will be the deputy leader of the party. He even told me on that occasion that at a certain function in Abuja that Prof Dora Akinyuli nominated him as the leader of the party, but he rejected it in the presence of all the people and told them that the leadership of the party will remain in Ojukwu’s house and that he, Peter Obi will be the deputy leader. He assured me that Bianca will be the leader and I left thinking I had a word.
Later, he connived with Victor Umeh and they declared him the leader of the party and chairman, Board of Trustees, BOT, contrary to our agreement. Because of this there has been dissent and people are reacting negatively to that, insisting that is not the agreement. I tell you that I was one of those who solved the problem between him and Umeh.
Before the last elections?
Yes. His group came here. Victor Umeh’s group also came here. They pleaded with me that I am the only person that will solve the problem, because of my position. I am apolitical. I’m not into any party business. I agreed and I invited them to Abuja. All of us met. I was the person, that for the first time after the death of Ojukwu that took Victor Umeh to Iyom Bianca’s place in Abuja and made peace with them, brokered peace with Peter Obi. Immediately I brought them together, they re-enacted their Agulu brotherhood. They remembered that they are from one place. They jettisoned all of us; kicked us out and became oil and salt, to the detriment of the party and every other person. They pretend to the public that they are peaceful. The other day, I saw Peter Obi kissing the Pope’s hand. They pretend to the public, but inside, they are wolves. So, they are the cause of the trouble in APGA.
There is another faction led by Maxi Okwu. How far do you think that leadership will go, given the situation on ground now?
Given the situation on ground now, Maxi Okwu is the true and authentic leader of APGA. It was Peter Obi that brought Maxi Okwu into APGA. Do you understand it? When he was quarrelling with Umeh, it was Peter Obi that organized the last convention of APGA in Awka where Maxi Okwu emerged as the chairman of the party. But when we brought Peter Obi and Victor Umeh together, they formed Agulu Alliance. Today, Peter Obi is kicking against the convention he organized. He is against the chairman he helped to emerge. Do you understand? This is because they want APGA to be in their pocket. But my own grouse is violating the agreement we reached on Ojukwu.
What is the intrinsic value in the agreement on Ojukwu?
When there was the former crisis before I brought peace to APGA, Iyom Bianca told me that these are people that nobody can trust. That they really wanted to victimise her. I persuaded her to accept my intention to make peace, to allow me bring them together. When I brought them together, they connived against everybody, including myself and Iyom Bianca. How can I then go back to the woman? All the agreements we reached, they never kept any.
How do you see the future of APGA now?
Let’s see what the Court of Appeal will say. They had a hearing on Tuesday, April 30 and they adjourned sine die because they want to write the judgement. Let’s see how it goes. But the issue is that the so-called secretary, Shinkafi has been there for 13 years. Victor Umeh has been there for over 10 years as chairman of APGA. What the constitution says is four years of two terms, that is eight years. You have two people staying for 13 and 10 years? Why? Why? You see APGA today is only in Anambra state. They don’t want anybody to enter APGA. You know how many times I got credible Igbomen to enter APGA, but they closed the door against them because they do not want any interference.
APGA is like a jinxed party, shrinking on a daily basis. Even in Imo, where it won, the governor defected to APC. Do you still see any future there?
Yes, it is because of the nomenclature. Most of these politicians are very selfish. I was the person that took Rochas Okorocha to Enugu. As a matter of fact I drove him in my own car, in my dutch Jeep. Rochas came to my house with Chief PC Onuoha. When he came, I told him that he will contest election in Imo State as governor. He told me no, that he went to Abuja and met Victor Umeh, and after talking with him, Umeh swore that he will never give him ticket. I said, don’t worry, I will give you ticket. From my house, there and then I brought out my car. Rochas entered and sat at the front passenger seat. P.C Onuoha sat at the back. I was driving, and our convoy followed behind. We reached Enugu, around 2.00pm. They were at the parlour. I went into the study room to speak with Ojukwu, Ezeigbo Gburugburu.He told me that this person I brought is not a true Igbo man. “I will not give him ticket,” that was what he told me. Iyom was there. I pleaded with him because when he came to see me in Owerri prisons, he told me that since Ikedi Ohakim was instrumental to my detention, he would never allow him to remain as governor of Imo State. He advised that if I come out I should bring another person to replace Ohakim. So when I reminded him there of his promise, he said okay bring him. So, Rochas was allowed to join us in the study room. Ezeigbo narrated all his faults to him and told him that why he was objecting to his coming into APGA was because of what he did in ANPP when Ezeigbo was the chairman of the Board of Trustees. He told him all this, the sins he committed against Ndigbo. He told him that at the end of the day that he will give him the ticket because of me. Rochas also narrated how he went to Abuja to meet Victor Umeh and he told him that he will not give him ticket. So Ezeigbo asked me to go ahead and give him ticket. It was in my house, my country home at Okwe that the ticket of APGA Imo governorship was given to Rochas, and I was the person that raised his hands. I invited all the aspirants to my house.
Was Martins Agbaso there? He said, he voluntarily ceded the ticket to Rochas Okorocha?
Agbaso kicked against Rochas. Agbaso had told me; there was a word he used. He said if I debar him from clinching the ticket, he will come to my house and hang himself. I laughed. I said, if you want to come, you can come and I will give you a rope to hang yourself. He was against Rochas then. As a matter of fact, three weeks to the elections they claimed they had expelled Rochas from APGA. Then Umeh was not supporting Rochas. Ojukwu had then taken seriously ill and had been flown to London. So it was a battle for me and Iyom Bianca. Even when Rochas declared for his governorship intention in Imo State, the state executive was not there. National executive was not there. Victor Umeh was not there. Agbaso was not there, it was Iyom Bianca that came from London to Owerri and raised Rochas Okorocha’s hand. If you look at the video you won’t see Umeh there, you won’t see Agbaso there. None was there.
So how come the story is everywhere that Agbaso entered into an agreement with Rochas and was settled?
Yes. As I was telling you, I am not into politics. I only played a role to see that APGA emerged the party of the people. When there is crisis, I will come in and solve the problem. So immediately I gave Rochas the ticket, I withdrew. Rochas started, campaigning. I asked Rochas personally to go and meet Agbaso and fraternise with him to see that everyone was carried along. It was then that he went to Agbaso. One of the things that made me suspect Rochas was that when he finalised things with Agbaso, whether he gave him money or not, he never told anybody; when he picked Martin Agbaso’s younger brother as his running mate he never sought anybody’s opinion, not even myself and Iyom Bianca. So we left him. But I gave him my machinery in MASSOB to work for him.
How do you feel that all your efforts to solve the unending crises in APGA have not yielded fruits, and today PDP is raring to take over the South East?
I feel disturbed. I am not into politics. I don’t even believe in Nigeria or its politics. But the thing is that when one is still in Nigeria, we must maintain our interest. Because of the fact that Ojukwu was instrumental to the emergence of APGA, our interest is there. So I wouldn’t want to see Ojukwu’s legacy die. That is why each time, there is crisis in APGA I am so disturbed, and involved. Everybody will come and say, I did this, I did that. All that these people are doing is because of their selfish interest. Why I am partisan now is because there was an agreement. They jettisoned the woman. Iyom is the legitimate successor to Ojukwu and beneficiary of his legacies. Not anyone else. They chased the woman away and took her husband’s property. Is that how to go about it? You don’t do it. In Yoruba land, H.I.D Awolowo is still playing an influential role. All over the world it is the practice. You cannot take the party from the wife of the leader. Indira Ghandi’s family, left a dynasty in India. It was Jewaaral Nehru Ghandi that made Indira Ghandi who had married to another family prime minister of India, because of the role of Jewaaral Nehru. The same in Pakistan. But in Nigeria, In Igbo land, because people feel that she is not ambitious they want to push the woman away from the legacies of the husband. And I know it will not work. I will stand by her. There was an agreement.
Is the agreement available?
Yes, there was an agreement. Some people even tried to sabotage the sustenance of Ezeigbo in the family when there was quarrel with Peter Obi. They just want to pocket APGA. APGA is an Igbo party. It is not owned by anyone but Ndigbo. Victor Umeh is from Agulu, Anambra State; he is chairman, Peter Obi is from Agulu; Anambra State, leader, Peter Obi is from Agulu, chairman, BOT. Is APGA for Agulu? Is it Agulu party? There are other people in Igbo land.
How can APGA be repositioned before 2015? Some of the founding fathers like Chekwas Okorie have already left, after a long crisis.
Like I said, we have to wait for the Court of Appeal verdict. But all I know is that APGA will not die. No matter how people try. You see, people keep APGA as cash cow. When there is election, they collect money from aspirants. Look at what happened last time during the governorship election in Anambra State. They collected money; N12 million each from aspirants. N10 million for the party, N2 million for nomination form. They wanted money from people. Why not allow people to go to the field? They set up a kangaroo screening committee to disqualify people like Charles Soludo. You collected money from them, why not allow them to participate in the primaries and give them a level playing field? So, since you will not allow fairplay, why did you collect that money? They disqualified people because of someone who came from America. They are using APGA to dupe people, for fraudulent purposes. That is my anger. Every Igbo man is interested, because APGA is an Igbo party. And being an Igbo party, I have a say, I have a stake.
I want to extend to related issues. A new state is being considered for the South East by the Devolution of Power Committee of the National Conference. Before then, Ohanaeze had propped up a structure for its realisation, but Ebonyi State governor pulled out of the arrangement, alleging marginalisation by other sister states. What do you say?
In my position today, I don’t really want to dabble into Igbo politics. The woes of Ndigbo are caused by the Igbo elite. And I have said that the Igbo elite are empty upstairs. They answer professors, doctors, senators, yet they know next to nothing. They use marginalisation as a key word to achieve what they want in Nigeria. When they want to be Senate President they start shouting that Igbo are marginalized; Igbo have never occupied the position of Senate President. Why? Because they want to be Senate President. Immediately you make them Senate President, the cry of marginalization dies. No Igbo leader has come out to say, I can fight or die for an Igbo cause. None of them. So when you talk of Ebonyi governor, they are the same thing. I remember that when Anyim Pius Anyim became Senate President, the position was zoned to Ebonyi state, because people felt that the state was marginalized. Even now, the seat he is occupying was zoned to the South East, but it was given to Ebonyi State. So, for the governor to say that Ebonyi State is marginalized, I don’t know what else he wants, because no section of Igboland is marginalizing the others. Why he is saying that is because he wants to get something personally. The moment he gets it, he won’t say again that Ebonyi State is marginalized. And that is the character of every Igbo man. That is what is wrong with them. When they tell you or shout marginalization, watch them, they have something they are looking for at the centre. Do you understand it?
There are more than four states creation movements in the South East. Which area do you think the new state should be created from?
All these things that people talk about just amuse me. It doesn’t make me jump up, because we are supposed to have this state right from the word go, when others were created. It is not a privilege; it is not an honour to us. It is long overdue. Rather we are supposed to be paid compensation in addition to the additional state. We are supposed to be paid the arrears of revenue we would have collected from the federal government for the state before this time. It doesn’t surprise me in any way. That is why all this former heads of state, when they come to Igboland during elections they can’t speak out. People like Babangida, Buhari. They created these states and marginalized Ndigbo. They kept us under for selfish reasons, because they conquered us. So how does it now amuse anybody that we are just given additional state after so many years. It is of no consequence. So wherever it comes from, as long as it is in Igboland, it is acceptable to me. Nobody should fight over that. I am not interested in where it comes from.
Recently the Biafran Zionist Movement, a breakaway group of MASSOB attempted to take over the Enugu Government House. Fingers were pointed at you then. Can you throw some light on what happened?
(Laughs) it makes me laugh. You know one thing? All these boys were my boys. They worked under me. You know the character of an Igbo man is that he doesn’t like being under anybody. He wants to branch out and be his own boss, his own governor, his own president. I don’t begrudge anybody who wants to be anything. That Onwuka boy, was coming to Lagos. He was printing and selling pamphlets. A lot of them do it in MASSOB organization. It is a way they make money. So I don’t stop it. He was writing Zionist Movement. So, I asked them to bring the person writing the whole thing. I said, anything written about Biafra is acceptable to me. But what is the meaning of Zionist? Do you know the meaning of what you are writing? He started explaining. I said what I formed is not about that. If anyone wants to form anything outside that, go ahead. So he left. I am not against groups. Even the more, the merrier. I may not be the person that will achieve Biafra. God knows who will do it. Nelson Mandela was not even born when ANC was formed. But he grew up to champion the cause of ANC. Due to luck, he became the face of ANC, became the president, and all that. Mahatma Ghandi was not even born when the Indian National Congress was formed. He grew up, championed the cause of Indian National Congress and became the mentor. A leader that wants to achieve everything himself is not a good leader. That is why I am very angry with APGA. It may be done by your lieutenants, or those you have tutored.
So, I encourage my men, if you want to go out and form anything, you are free. I encourage you. If it is for the purpose of Biafra, no problem with me. But if it is for other causes, I keep quiet.
So, we adopted non-violence as our style. I travelled to India to understudy Mahatma Ghandi. That was my purpose for leaving Nigeria’s shores. After my first degree in political science, I realised that Ghandi was a lawyer. I decided to study law too in India. And I saw that the only way we could achieve this thing is through non-violence. And that was what Mahatma Ghandi did. All over the world, struggles are achieved through non-violence. We have Boko Haram insurgency now. Even if they get an Islamic state, there must be a conference where the issue will be discussed and agreed upon. Where documents will be signed. It will not be done in the forest or in the battle field. When you know that at the end of the day, you will revert to a roundtable conference, why then do you kill people for any reason.? That is why I adopted non-violence. It is not as if I cannot do what these people are doing. We can do them, even better: But when you look at it; you kill people, you can’t achieve what you want. You can’t.
Now that you have adopted passive resistance and civil disobedience, looking back, are you satisfied with the strides you have made since 1999?
Sure. Sure. Okay take for instance, when a group went to the Government House in Enugu, I told the Commissioner of Police that he was suffering from malaria. You know MASSOB very well. We can’t do that. We have no reason to do that. If we want to do that, we have the capacity to storm all the government houses in the South East and even South-South. We have the machinery. This one had only 50 boys and took them there. If you conquer the government house in Enugu, what about other government houses? But if it is MASSOB, we will even put 10,000 men on each state and take them over. But after taking them over, with what will you sustain it? When you are not armed. Then you will put the lives of our men in danger. At the end of the day you have not achieved what you want. We have the capacity to overrun all these smaller nations. MASSOB have the capacity. I mean it, and the Nigerian security agencies know. But we are quiet, waiting for what we are waiting for. When the time comes, you will see that MASSOB is a formidable organization in Africa. Nobody will dare us. We are already a government. What we don’t do is hiding from doing anything. If we want to storm any place, we storm that place. We will go there, in their presence. We don’t go at night, or hide. We have the numerical strength. We have all it takes to achieve it. We have the money too. If we contribute ordinary N10 or N20 each, it runs into millions, because of our numerical strength.
What is your numerical strength like?
I am following what the security agencies are saying. Sometime ago, they said it was four million, now they said we are six million. That’s what they are saying (The SSS). But we know we are not below 10 million people in MASSOB. I issue the identity cards. We know our number. We know how many people that are members.
I would like you to react to the diatribe by Adamawa State governor, Murtala Nyako, where he described President Jonathan as an Easterner, who is out to unleash genocide on the North using the Boko Haram insurgency as subterfuge. What is MASSOB’s reaction. Is Jonathan an Easterner?
President Jonathan is an Easterner. He is our brother, In fact I see President Jonathan as an Igbo man. And that is why I am supporting him. And that is why I have been calling on Ndigbo to support him. Fine. I am not supposed to support anybody in Abuja. But I see myself supporting him, because of the fact that I have sat with him one on one. I sat with him one on one without any other person.. I spoke with him and heard him. I also sat with him in a group. I know him very well. He is not a pretender, He is someone that loves Ndigbo. I am telling you from personal experience and contact. He respects the Igbo man. I can’t count how many times I sat with him since he became president. So many times. When Ojukwu was sick, not many people knew how Jonathan showed concern. It is only Iyom Bianca and myself. I was staying in Ojukwu’s house long before he died, and when he was in Enugu hospital. I was in the hospital with Bianca, throughout. Ask the staff. I was sleeping there, from morning till night. All those who visited Ojukwu in hospital, I remember all of them. And I knew when they came. All the things that Jonathan did and the people he sent, I knew all of them. All the time he sent people to the London hospital, I knew. No president of Igbo origin could have done that. I tell you. The contribution Jonathan made when Ojukwu was sick, if an Igbo man was president he wouldn’t have done one quarter of it. Fear would not have allowed him. Then, when Ojukwu died, the kind of funeral he gave him, no Igbo man could have done that. So, I am trying to support my argument with reasons. Outside my personal encounters with him which nobody knew at all. He is more than an Igbo man. He is better than these people in Abuja who call themselves Igbo elite and Igbo leaders. Jonathan is far better than all of them joined together. And I prefer him, and even if it reaches the time for Igbo to present the president, let them pick Jonathan to represent them.
Look at the National Conference, that is on going now, they picked Ike Nwachukwu. Is Ike Nwachukwu an Igbo man? Omar Sanda Ike Nwachukwu is not an Igbo man. Somebody that fought against us during the war? Fought in the bush, on the side of Nigeria against Ndigbo. Then the governors, these sick people we have who are called governors picked him. When we have people like Dr Ikedife, Dr Ezeife, they brought an Hausa man to represent us. I would have preferred an Umaru Dikko to lead Ndigbo than Ike Nwachukwu. It is an insult, honestly. And that’s why I have no interest in the nonsense they are doing in Abuja. How can Ike Nwachukwu represent us? Theodore Orji, did it because he is from his state. I don’t know the rationale behind that. Can you compare Ike Nwachukwu to Jonathan? To your question now; the governor of Adamawa was very right to call Jonathan an Easterner. He should have called him an Igbo man, because personally, I accept him as an Igbo man. He is far better than all Igbo men put together, and I can defend it. I have been privy to what he has done for us.
This may shock you. There is a document I have now from Ohanaeze reparation committee. In that document, total expenditures on investments for the six geo-political zones were catalogued. The north Central took the lion share of N478b, while the South East took the rear with N79b. Does that show love for the South east as you explained?
We don’t need all these things you are mentioning, including the additional state. We don’t need them. What the Igbo man needs is Biafra; and that is why I am in the struggle. They are creating additional state for who? And they talk of Igbo president. Igbo president for who? Not even an Igbo man can ameliorate or overcome what you have said now. This is because the hurdles before him are insurmountable. So as long as Ndigbo remain in Nigeria, they will be worst of. It is not the fault of Jonathan. In the history of Nigeria, since independence has an Igbo man been the Chief of Army Staff? Look at all the positions Igbo men have occupied under Jonathan, have they ever had it like that before?.
If you see the hurdles placed before our people you will marvel. It is a glass ceiling. Our people should agitate for freedom, independence. If they are in Nigeria do you know that the population of Ndigbo is bigger than that of Ndi Hausa and Yoruba? You know what they do during census? That’s when true nationalism comes in, and they say no religion, no tribe, because of Ndigbo. Don’t travel out of your base, be counted where you are. If they allow tribe to be registered, the world will know the true population of Ndigbo. Why should you remove tribe in a thing like census? You have to state where you are from. It is because of Ndigbo. Was it caused by Jonathan? No.
Look at the man from Imo State that was appointed chairman of the Nastional Population Commission, he saw what he wanted to do. He never did it. He started talking. Instead of putting it in action, he put it in the mouth. That is the mentality of the Igbo man. Where is he now? He saw the fraud in the census over the years.
It is not only in the census that you have that kind of fraud. It is in every department and system in Nigeria and they are all geared towards the Igbo man, to oppress the Igbo man. All this things you are talking about now, you may even find out that they were caused by Ndigbo. You might even find out that these figures you mentioned now may have been caused by Ndigbo, These things were prepared by the ministries and departments, It was not Jonathan that prepared them. Igbo may have prepared them to show the outside world that they are good and true Nigerians, so that they can be nominated as vice president tomorrow or as minister. The problem of the Igbo man is caused by the Igbo elite. And they blame another person.
2015 is around the corner. Will MASSOB be fully involved? Will you support Jonathan?
I have said before that I was the first Igbo man after Ojukwu’s death to ask Ndigbo to support Jonathan. I did it when I visited the oldest Igbo politician and first republic politician, Chief Mbazulike Amaechi. It was in his house I said it and journalists gave it wide publicity.
Listen, Ndigbo should support Jonathan for three reaons. First, it is our obligation to protect our own, our brother. Now, a Northerner is telling us that he is our brother. Secondly, his personal disposition to us via our leader, Ojukwu. Jonathan cannot go to all the families in Igboland to do them a favour. Ojukwu was the symbol of Ndigbo and he showed him favour. Remember that when Ojukwu died, to give him a state burial was discussed at the senate. They threw it away. It was Andy Uba that tabled the motion. But Jonathan stood his ground and did what he did. If it was an Igbo man that is the president, he would have been afraid. But Jonathan was not afraid. He did it. He did more than you saw. There were other things he did behind the scene. If you saw or knew them, you would have said oh this is a wonderful man. Thirdly, even military presidents like Babangida ruled for eight years, two terms in our democratic setting. In the case of Gowon, he ruled for nine years. He didn’t even want to go. He was chased away, when they knew he didn’t want to go. What about Obasanjo? Then, why shouldn’t Jonathan complete his two terms?
But there are so many odds against him. He doesn’t have the support of the North and the South West. Also, most of the political elite especially from the aforementioned areas are arrayed against him. How do you think he will overcome these obstacles?
He is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces and he is a sitting president. If he doesn’t want to come back, that is his business. Did you tell you that Northerners are not supporting him? Don’t listen to a few people in Abuja who are the elite. Go to the villages and ask them. They are supporting Jonathan. And Jonathan himself must make sure that he wins because he is the president and Commander-in-Chief. Everybody is expecting him to win. Moreover he is doing so well. If you travel through the Nigerian Airports you see how the airports are now. It is like what you see in Europe. When these people were there, what did they do? Let’s talk of the ones we have seen. For the first time, Nigeria is talking about railways after so many years. Though none has crossed the South East, but we are seeing them even on television. These people who are saying that Jonathan cannot be President after 2015, what has he done that is worse than what others did? Let them tell you objectively why they don’t want Jonathan outside being selfish or tribalistic.
Look at the rebasing of the economy. The economy is coming back gradually. It is a gradual thing. But I don’t support all this things. I want the economy of Nigeria to be in shamble. I want everything in Nigeria to turn up side down, because I want Biafra. If these things work out well, it cannot favour me. It cannot favour my struggle. The only thing Boko Haram people are doing that I don’t like is killing innocent people. It pains me. In a way it tried to justify my ground on non-violence. Nigerians can now feel and know the difference between violence and non-violence. If MASSOB had been violent, it would have been like Boko Haram. You know, sometimes you may start up something and it grows beyond your control. What is happening in the North today has gone beyond the control of those who started it. Don’t mind these politicians shouting today, “arrest these boys.” They were the people who started it. But these boys are no longer taking instructions from them. They are distancing themselves from them now because of the atrocities they are committing. If you arm somebody, that person is no longer under your control again, because he has the gun.
So they armed these boys against us and these boys have outgrown them. And you see what is happening in Nigeria today? Nigeria must divide. You see the National Conference? They say no go area? God is against subjugation. You subjugate people against the will of God. Why? You want a conference where people can talk, and you place a no-go area; out of bad intention. If there is nothing to hide, you allow people to discuss everything. No go area is because there is injustice. And God hates injustice, That conference will never see the light of the day. Watch out. At the end of the day, it will never achieve success, because ab initio, it is tainted with injustice, illegality by that no-go area directive. They are still talking at the committee levels. let them come to the plenary, all the decisions will be jettisoned. Why? Because Northern interest versus Southern interest, Muslim versus Christianity. Watch out. Nigeria is not for the well being of the North. God is against it. That is why it can never work. You know what Boko Haram is doing now, it was what happened in Egypt. God hardened the heart of Pharaoh. God has hardened the heart of Abuja people, the seat of power. I am not talking about Jonathan. Remember, when God hardened the heart of Pharaoh, God did not dislike Pharaoh. God wanted the Egyptians to suffer but was using Pharaoh. As the Commander-in-Chief, he wanted the Egyptians to suffer because of how they ill-treated the Israelites. Do you know the story of how our women were hijacked and taken into captivity by Federal soldiers after the civil war? Now, terrorists are hijacking little innocent school children. A replica of what our people suffered is what is happening in the North today.
The best thing is to divide Nigeria, because these things will become uncontrollable in future. You can never stop it, because of the injustices meted against the Igbo. The consequences are what we are seeing today.
The entity called Nigeria is ab initio an illegality, according to some documents, because the amalgamation was not signed. Are you aware?
That is true. Absolutely. If there was any document sustaining the amalgamation of Northern and Southern protectorate, they would have brought it out since Lord Lugard, I learnt it was the wife or girlfriend that coined the word Nigeria from Niger. It was done because they saw that they were not getting enough resources from the North to complement that of the South. So, he said let’s put the two together. An unfair behaviour to the South. He did not invite people to ask whether they want it or not. He did it by fiat for the purpose of his own administration. Then people are coming today to say what they do not know about.
MASSOB Leader Raph Uwazuruike is a disgrace to Biafran cause!
“They were at the parlour. I went into the study room to speak with Ojukwu, Ezeigbo Gburugburu. He [Ojukwu] told me that this person [Rochas Okorocha] I brought is not a true Igbo man. ‘I will not give him ticket,’ that was what he told me. “
“I may not be the person that will achieve Biafra. God knows who will do it. . . A leader that wants to achieve everything himself is not a good leader.”
Leader of the Movement for the survival of the Sovereign State of Biafra, MASSOB, Chief Ralph Uwazuruike, is angry. And deservedly too. His, is a story of betrayals; of can of worms. From the reneging of an agreement for the succession of the late leader of the All Progressives Grand Alliance, APGA, Dim Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu by his wife, Iyom Bianca, to the selfish appropriation of APGA by a clique which he alleges, uses the party as “a cash cow” and for extortion, the tale elicits awe and grows goose pimples. “Why I am partisan now is because there was an agreement. Iyom is the legitimate successor to Ojukwu and beneficiary of his legacies.
Not anyone else. They chased the woman away and took her husband’s property”. He tells Sunday Sun in his residence in Owerri, the Imo State capital. He is not done yet, as the bile in his belly still overflows from the stench of further betrayals. He speaks of how he single-handedly made Owelle Rochas Okorocha governor in 2011, against the advice and better judgement of the late Ojukwu, and how the same man has turned his back against him and the people. In pains, he talks of the self-serving cry and ribaldry of Igbo marginalization by the leaders.
“They use marginalization as a keyword to achieve what they want in Nigeria. When they want to be Senate President they start shouting that Igbos are marginalized; Igbos have never occupied the position of Senate President. Immediately, you make them Senate President, the cry of marginalization dies,” he thunders.
He rows to his organization, MASSOB, which he founded in 1999, positing that despite the trials, “MASSOB is already a government.” And to President Goodluck Jonathan, his love and admiration for him spills over. Although Jonathan is Ijaw in the South-South geo-political zone, he insists that he sees him as an Igbo man. “Jonathan is more than an Igbo man,” he adds for effect.
Correspondingly, the MASSOB leader, has opprobrium for Ike Nwachukwu, who is a leader of the Igbo at the ongoing National Conference in Abuja.
“I prefer Umaru Dikko to Ike Nwachukwu as Igbo leader”, he argues in anecdote.
He further unveils his support plans for Jonathan in the context of the imminent 2015 election, gives his views on the entity Nigeria, Boko Haram, and other key national issues.
Excerpts…
I want to start with the leadership tussle in the All Progressives Grand Alliance, APGA, which is a party rooted in Igboland. The leader of the party, Dim Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu is gone. How do you look at the crises in the party before and after his death?
The leadership of the party is selfish. The leadership of the party is inept. They are greedy. When Ojukwu died, all of us agreed that the leadership of the party will remain in Ojukwu’s house for the sustenance of that symbol. All of us agreed that Peter Obi will be the deputy leader of that party. As a matter of fact, for eight years that Peter Obi was the governor of Anambra state, I visited him only just once. And I went with Iyom Bianca Ojukwu. And my purpose was to tell him that he should not renege on that agreement that all of us reached, that the leadership of the party will remain in Ojukwu’s stead. He told me in the presence of Iyom Bianca that he recognized Bianca Ojukwu as the leader of the party. And that he himself will be the deputy leader of the party. He even told me on that occasion that at a certain function in Abuja that Prof Dora Akinyuli nominated him as the leader of the party, but he rejected it in the presence of all the people and told them that the leadership of the party will remain in Ojukwu’s house and that he, Peter Obi will be the deputy leader. He assured me that Bianca will be the leader and I left thinking I had a word.
Later, he connived with Victor Umeh and they declared him the leader of the party and chairman, Board of Trustees, BOT, contrary to our agreement. Because of this there has been dissent and people are reacting negatively to that, insisting that is not the agreement. I tell you that I was one of those who solved the problem between him and Umeh.
Before the last elections?
Yes. His group came here. Victor Umeh’s group also came here. They pleaded with me that I am the only person that will solve the problem, because of my position. I am apolitical. I’m not into any party business. I agreed and I invited them to Abuja. All of us met. I was the person, that for the first time after the death of Ojukwu that took Victor Umeh to Iyom Bianca’s place in Abuja and made peace with them, brokered peace with Peter Obi. Immediately I brought them together, they re-enacted their Agulu brotherhood. They remembered that they are from one place. They jettisoned all of us; kicked us out and became oil and salt, to the detriment of the party and every other person. They pretend to the public that they are peaceful. The other day, I saw Peter Obi kissing the Pope’s hand. They pretend to the public, but inside, they are wolves. So, they are the cause of the trouble in APGA.
There is another faction led by Maxi Okwu. How far do you think that leadership will go, given the situation on ground now?
Given the situation on ground now, Maxi Okwu is the true and authentic leader of APGA. It was Peter Obi that brought Maxi Okwu into APGA. Do you understand it? When he was quarrelling with Umeh, it was Peter Obi that organized the last convention of APGA in Awka where Maxi Okwu emerged as the chairman of the party. But when we brought Peter Obi and Victor Umeh together, they formed Agulu Alliance. Today, Peter Obi is kicking against the convention he organized. He is against the chairman he helped to emerge. Do you understand? This is because they want APGA to be in their pocket. But my own grouse is violating the agreement we reached on Ojukwu.
What is the intrinsic value in the agreement on Ojukwu?
When there was the former crisis before I brought peace to APGA, Iyom Bianca told me that these are people that nobody can trust. That they really wanted to victimise her. I persuaded her to accept my intention to make peace, to allow me bring them together. When I brought them together, they connived against everybody, including myself and Iyom Bianca. How can I then go back to the woman? All the agreements we reached, they never kept any.
How do you see the future of APGA now?
Let’s see what the Court of Appeal will say. They had a hearing on Tuesday, April 30 and they adjourned sine die because they want to write the judgement. Let’s see how it goes. But the issue is that the so-called secretary, Shinkafi has been there for 13 years. Victor Umeh has been there for over 10 years as chairman of APGA. What the constitution says is four years of two terms, that is eight years. You have two people staying for 13 and 10 years? Why? Why? You see APGA today is only in Anambra state. They don’t want anybody to enter APGA. You know how many times I got credible Igbomen to enter APGA, but they closed the door against them because they do not want any interference.
APGA is like a jinxed party, shrinking on a daily basis. Even in Imo, where it won, the governor defected to APC. Do you still see any future there?
Yes, it is because of the nomenclature. Most of these politicians are very selfish. I was the person that took Rochas Okorocha to Enugu. As a matter of fact I drove him in my own car, in my dutch Jeep. Rochas came to my house with Chief PC Onuoha. When he came, I told him that he will contest election in Imo State as governor. He told me no, that he went to Abuja and met Victor Umeh, and after talking with him, Umeh swore that he will never give him ticket. I said, don’t worry, I will give you ticket. From my house, there and then I brought out my car. Rochas entered and sat at the front passenger seat. P.C Onuoha sat at the back. I was driving, and our convoy followed behind. We reached Enugu, around 2.00pm. They were at the parlour. I went into the study room to speak with Ojukwu, Ezeigbo Gburugburu.He told me that this person I brought is not a true Igbo man. “I will not give him ticket,” that was what he told me. Iyom was there. I pleaded with him because when he came to see me in Owerri prisons, he told me that since Ikedi Ohakim was instrumental to my detention, he would never allow him to remain as governor of Imo State. He advised that if I come out I should bring another person to replace Ohakim. So when I reminded him there of his promise, he said okay bring him. So, Rochas was allowed to join us in the study room. Ezeigbo narrated all his faults to him and told him that why he was objecting to his coming into APGA was because of what he did in ANPP when Ezeigbo was the chairman of the Board of Trustees. He told him all this, the sins he committed against Ndigbo. He told him that at the end of the day that he will give him the ticket because of me. Rochas also narrated how he went to Abuja to meet Victor Umeh and he told him that he will not give him ticket. So Ezeigbo asked me to go ahead and give him ticket. It was in my house, my country home at Okwe that the ticket of APGA Imo governorship was given to Rochas, and I was the person that raised his hands. I invited all the aspirants to my house.
Was Martins Agbaso there? He said, he voluntarily ceded the ticket to Rochas Okorocha?
Agbaso kicked against Rochas. Agbaso had told me; there was a word he used. He said if I debar him from clinching the ticket, he will come to my house and hang himself. I laughed. I said, if you want to come, you can come and I will give you a rope to hang yourself. He was against Rochas then. As a matter of fact, three weeks to the elections they claimed they had expelled Rochas from APGA. Then Umeh was not supporting Rochas. Ojukwu had then taken seriously ill and had been flown to London. So it was a battle for me and Iyom Bianca. Even when Rochas declared for his governorship intention in Imo State, the state executive was not there. National executive was not there. Victor Umeh was not there. Agbaso was not there, it was Iyom Bianca that came from London to Owerri and raised Rochas Okorocha’s hand. If you look at the video you won’t see Umeh there, you won’t see Agbaso there. None was there.
So how come the story is everywhere that Agbaso entered into an agreement with Rochas and was settled?
Yes. As I was telling you, I am not into politics. I only played a role to see that APGA emerged the party of the people. When there is crisis, I will come in and solve the problem. So immediately I gave Rochas the ticket, I withdrew. Rochas started, campaigning. I asked Rochas personally to go and meet Agbaso and fraternise with him to see that everyone was carried along. It was then that he went to Agbaso. One of the things that made me suspect Rochas was that when he finalised things with Agbaso, whether he gave him money or not, he never told anybody; when he picked Martin Agbaso’s younger brother as his running mate he never sought anybody’s opinion, not even myself and Iyom Bianca. So we left him. But I gave him my machinery in MASSOB to work for him.
How do you feel that all your efforts to solve the unending crises in APGA have not yielded fruits, and today PDP is raring to take over the South East?
I feel disturbed. I am not into politics. I don’t even believe in Nigeria or its politics. But the thing is that when one is still in Nigeria, we must maintain our interest. Because of the fact that Ojukwu was instrumental to the emergence of APGA, our interest is there. So I wouldn’t want to see Ojukwu’s legacy die. That is why each time, there is crisis in APGA I am so disturbed, and involved. Everybody will come and say, I did this, I did that. All that these people are doing is because of their selfish interest. Why I am partisan now is because there was an agreement. They jettisoned the woman. Iyom is the legitimate successor to Ojukwu and beneficiary of his legacies. Not anyone else. They chased the woman away and took her husband’s property. Is that how to go about it? You don’t do it. In Yoruba land, H.I.D Awolowo is still playing an influential role. All over the world it is the practice. You cannot take the party from the wife of the leader. Indira Ghandi’s family, left a dynasty in India. It was Jewaaral Nehru Ghandi that made Indira Ghandi who had married to another family prime minister of India, because of the role of Jewaaral Nehru. The same in Pakistan. But in Nigeria, In Igbo land, because people feel that she is not ambitious they want to push the woman away from the legacies of the husband. And I know it will not work. I will stand by her. There was an agreement.
Is the agreement available?
Yes, there was an agreement. Some people even tried to sabotage the sustenance of Ezeigbo in the family when there was quarrel with Peter Obi. They just want to pocket APGA. APGA is an Igbo party. It is not owned by anyone but Ndigbo. Victor Umeh is from Agulu, Anambra State; he is chairman, Peter Obi is from Agulu; Anambra State, leader, Peter Obi is from Agulu, chairman, BOT. Is APGA for Agulu? Is it Agulu party? There are other people in Igbo land.
How can APGA be repositioned before 2015? Some of the founding fathers like Chekwas Okorie have already left, after a long crisis.
Like I said, we have to wait for the Court of Appeal verdict. But all I know is that APGA will not die. No matter how people try. You see, people keep APGA as cash cow. When there is election, they collect money from aspirants. Look at what happened last time during the governorship election in Anambra State. They collected money; N12 million each from aspirants. N10 million for the party, N2 million for nomination form. They wanted money from people. Why not allow people to go to the field? They set up a kangaroo screening committee to disqualify people like Charles Soludo. You collected money from them, why not allow them to participate in the primaries and give them a level playing field? So, since you will not allow fairplay, why did you collect that money? They disqualified people because of someone who came from America. They are using APGA to dupe people, for fraudulent purposes. That is my anger. Every Igbo man is interested, because APGA is an Igbo party. And being an Igbo party, I have a say, I have a stake.
I want to extend to related issues. A new state is being considered for the South East by the Devolution of Power Committee of the National Conference. Before then, Ohanaeze had propped up a structure for its realisation, but Ebonyi State governor pulled out of the arrangement, alleging marginalisation by other sister states. What do you say?
In my position today, I don’t really want to dabble into Igbo politics. The woes of Ndigbo are caused by the Igbo elite. And I have said that the Igbo elite are empty upstairs. They answer professors, doctors, senators, yet they know next to nothing. They use marginalisation as a key word to achieve what they want in Nigeria. When they want to be Senate President they start shouting that Igbo are marginalized; Igbo have never occupied the position of Senate President. Why? Because they want to be Senate President. Immediately you make them Senate President, the cry of marginalization dies. No Igbo leader has come out to say, I can fight or die for an Igbo cause. None of them. So when you talk of Ebonyi governor, they are the same thing. I remember that when Anyim Pius Anyim became Senate President, the position was zoned to Ebonyi state, because people felt that the state was marginalized. Even now, the seat he is occupying was zoned to the South East, but it was given to Ebonyi State. So, for the governor to say that Ebonyi State is marginalized, I don’t know what else he wants, because no section of Igboland is marginalizing the others. Why he is saying that is because he wants to get something personally. The moment he gets it, he won’t say again that Ebonyi State is marginalized. And that is the character of every Igbo man. That is what is wrong with them. When they tell you or shout marginalization, watch them, they have something they are looking for at the centre. Do you understand it?
There are more than four states creation movements in the South East. Which area do you think the new state should be created from?
All these things that people talk about just amuse me. It doesn’t make me jump up, because we are supposed to have this state right from the word go, when others were created. It is not a privilege; it is not an honour to us. It is long overdue. Rather we are supposed to be paid compensation in addition to the additional state. We are supposed to be paid the arrears of revenue we would have collected from the federal government for the state before this time. It doesn’t surprise me in any way. That is why all this former heads of state, when they come to Igboland during elections they can’t speak out. People like Babangida, Buhari. They created these states and marginalized Ndigbo. They kept us under for selfish reasons, because they conquered us. So how does it now amuse anybody that we are just given additional state after so many years. It is of no consequence. So wherever it comes from, as long as it is in Igboland, it is acceptable to me. Nobody should fight over that. I am not interested in where it comes from.
Recently the Biafran Zionist Movement, a breakaway group of MASSOB attempted to take over the Enugu Government House. Fingers were pointed at you then. Can you throw some light on what happened?
(Laughs) it makes me laugh. You know one thing? All these boys were my boys. They worked under me. You know the character of an Igbo man is that he doesn’t like being under anybody. He wants to branch out and be his own boss, his own governor, his own president. I don’t begrudge anybody who wants to be anything. That Onwuka boy, was coming to Lagos. He was printing and selling pamphlets. A lot of them do it in MASSOB organization. It is a way they make money. So I don’t stop it. He was writing Zionist Movement. So, I asked them to bring the person writing the whole thing. I said, anything written about Biafra is acceptable to me. But what is the meaning of Zionist? Do you know the meaning of what you are writing? He started explaining. I said what I formed is not about that. If anyone wants to form anything outside that, go ahead. So he left. I am not against groups. Even the more, the merrier. I may not be the person that will achieve Biafra. God knows who will do it. Nelson Mandela was not even born when ANC was formed. But he grew up to champion the cause of ANC. Due to luck, he became the face of ANC, became the president, and all that. Mahatma Ghandi was not even born when the Indian National Congress was formed. He grew up, championed the cause of Indian National Congress and became the mentor. A leader that wants to achieve everything himself is not a good leader. That is why I am very angry with APGA. It may be done by your lieutenants, or those you have tutored.
So, I encourage my men, if you want to go out and form anything, you are free. I encourage you. If it is for the purpose of Biafra, no problem with me. But if it is for other causes, I keep quiet.
So, we adopted non-violence as our style. I travelled to India to understudy Mahatma Ghandi. That was my purpose for leaving Nigeria’s shores. After my first degree in political science, I realised that Ghandi was a lawyer. I decided to study law too in India. And I saw that the only way we could achieve this thing is through non-violence. And that was what Mahatma Ghandi did. All over the world, struggles are achieved through non-violence. We have Boko Haram insurgency now. Even if they get an Islamic state, there must be a conference where the issue will be discussed and agreed upon. Where documents will be signed. It will not be done in the forest or in the battle field. When you know that at the end of the day, you will revert to a roundtable conference, why then do you kill people for any reason.? That is why I adopted non-violence. It is not as if I cannot do what these people are doing. We can do them, even better: But when you look at it; you kill people, you can’t achieve what you want. You can’t.
Now that you have adopted passive resistance and civil disobedience, looking back, are you satisfied with the strides you have made since 1999?
Sure. Sure. Okay take for instance, when a group went to the Government House in Enugu, I told the Commissioner of Police that he was suffering from malaria. You know MASSOB very well. We can’t do that. We have no reason to do that. If we want to do that, we have the capacity to storm all the government houses in the South East and even South-South. We have the machinery. This one had only 50 boys and took them there. If you conquer the government house in Enugu, what about other government houses? But if it is MASSOB, we will even put 10,000 men on each state and take them over. But after taking them over, with what will you sustain it? When you are not armed. Then you will put the lives of our men in danger. At the end of the day you have not achieved what you want. We have the capacity to overrun all these smaller nations. MASSOB have the capacity. I mean it, and the Nigerian security agencies know. But we are quiet, waiting for what we are waiting for. When the time comes, you will see that MASSOB is a formidable organization in Africa. Nobody will dare us. We are already a government. What we don’t do is hiding from doing anything. If we want to storm any place, we storm that place. We will go there, in their presence. We don’t go at night, or hide. We have the numerical strength. We have all it takes to achieve it. We have the money too. If we contribute ordinary N10 or N20 each, it runs into millions, because of our numerical strength.
What is your numerical strength like?
I am following what the security agencies are saying. Sometime ago, they said it was four million, now they said we are six million. That’s what they are saying (The SSS). But we know we are not below 10 million people in MASSOB. I issue the identity cards. We know our number. We know how many people that are members.
I would like you to react to the diatribe by Adamawa State governor, Murtala Nyako, where he described President Jonathan as an Easterner, who is out to unleash genocide on the North using the Boko Haram insurgency as subterfuge. What is MASSOB’s reaction. Is Jonathan an Easterner?
President Jonathan is an Easterner. He is our brother, In fact I see President Jonathan as an Igbo man. And that is why I am supporting him. And that is why I have been calling on Ndigbo to support him. Fine. I am not supposed to support anybody in Abuja. But I see myself supporting him, because of the fact that I have sat with him one on one. I sat with him one on one without any other person.. I spoke with him and heard him. I also sat with him in a group. I know him very well. He is not a pretender, He is someone that loves Ndigbo. I am telling you from personal experience and contact. He respects the Igbo man. I can’t count how many times I sat with him since he became president. So many times. When Ojukwu was sick, not many people knew how Jonathan showed concern. It is only Iyom Bianca and myself. I was staying in Ojukwu’s house long before he died, and when he was in Enugu hospital. I was in the hospital with Bianca, throughout. Ask the staff. I was sleeping there, from morning till night. All those who visited Ojukwu in hospital, I remember all of them. And I knew when they came. All the things that Jonathan did and the people he sent, I knew all of them. All the time he sent people to the London hospital, I knew. No president of Igbo origin could have done that. I tell you. The contribution Jonathan made when Ojukwu was sick, if an Igbo man was president he wouldn’t have done one quarter of it. Fear would not have allowed him. Then, when Ojukwu died, the kind of funeral he gave him, no Igbo man could have done that. So, I am trying to support my argument with reasons. Outside my personal encounters with him which nobody knew at all. He is more than an Igbo man. He is better than these people in Abuja who call themselves Igbo elite and Igbo leaders. Jonathan is far better than all of them joined together. And I prefer him, and even if it reaches the time for Igbo to present the president, let them pick Jonathan to represent them.
Look at the National Conference, that is on going now, they picked Ike Nwachukwu. Is Ike Nwachukwu an Igbo man? Omar Sanda Ike Nwachukwu is not an Igbo man. Somebody that fought against us during the war? Fought in the bush, on the side of Nigeria against Ndigbo. Then the governors, these sick people we have who are called governors picked him. When we have people like Dr Ikedife, Dr Ezeife, they brought an Hausa man to represent us. I would have preferred an Umaru Dikko to lead Ndigbo than Ike Nwachukwu. It is an insult, honestly. And that’s why I have no interest in the nonsense they are doing in Abuja. How can Ike Nwachukwu represent us? Theodore Orji, did it because he is from his state. I don’t know the rationale behind that. Can you compare Ike Nwachukwu to Jonathan? To your question now; the governor of Adamawa was very right to call Jonathan an Easterner. He should have called him an Igbo man, because personally, I accept him as an Igbo man. He is far better than all Igbo men put together, and I can defend it. I have been privy to what he has done for us.
This may shock you. There is a document I have now from Ohanaeze reparation committee. In that document, total expenditures on investments for the six geo-political zones were catalogued. The north Central took the lion share of N478b, while the South East took the rear with N79b. Does that show love for the South east as you explained?
We don’t need all these things you are mentioning, including the additional state. We don’t need them. What the Igbo man needs is Biafra; and that is why I am in the struggle. They are creating additional state for who? And they talk of Igbo president. Igbo president for who? Not even an Igbo man can ameliorate or overcome what you have said now. This is because the hurdles before him are insurmountable. So as long as Ndigbo remain in Nigeria, they will be worst of. It is not the fault of Jonathan. In the history of Nigeria, since independence has an Igbo man been the Chief of Army Staff? Look at all the positions Igbo men have occupied under Jonathan, have they ever had it like that before?.
If you see the hurdles placed before our people you will marvel. It is a glass ceiling. Our people should agitate for freedom, independence. If they are in Nigeria do you know that the population of Ndigbo is bigger than that of Ndi Hausa and Yoruba? You know what they do during census? That’s when true nationalism comes in, and they say no religion, no tribe, because of Ndigbo. Don’t travel out of your base, be counted where you are. If they allow tribe to be registered, the world will know the true population of Ndigbo. Why should you remove tribe in a thing like census? You have to state where you are from. It is because of Ndigbo. Was it caused by Jonathan? No.
Look at the man from Imo State that was appointed chairman of the Nastional Population Commission, he saw what he wanted to do. He never did it. He started talking. Instead of putting it in action, he put it in the mouth. That is the mentality of the Igbo man. Where is he now? He saw the fraud in the census over the years.
It is not only in the census that you have that kind of fraud. It is in every department and system in Nigeria and they are all geared towards the Igbo man, to oppress the Igbo man. All this things you are talking about now, you may even find out that they were caused by Ndigbo. You might even find out that these figures you mentioned now may have been caused by Ndigbo, These things were prepared by the ministries and departments, It was not Jonathan that prepared them. Igbo may have prepared them to show the outside world that they are good and true Nigerians, so that they can be nominated as vice president tomorrow or as minister. The problem of the Igbo man is caused by the Igbo elite. And they blame another person.
2015 is around the corner. Will MASSOB be fully involved? Will you support Jonathan?
I have said before that I was the first Igbo man after Ojukwu’s death to ask Ndigbo to support Jonathan. I did it when I visited the oldest Igbo politician and first republic politician, Chief Mbazulike Amaechi. It was in his house I said it and journalists gave it wide publicity.
Listen, Ndigbo should support Jonathan for three reaons. First, it is our obligation to protect our own, our brother. Now, a Northerner is telling us that he is our brother. Secondly, his personal disposition to us via our leader, Ojukwu. Jonathan cannot go to all the families in Igboland to do them a favour. Ojukwu was the symbol of Ndigbo and he showed him favour. Remember that when Ojukwu died, to give him a state burial was discussed at the senate. They threw it away. It was Andy Uba that tabled the motion. But Jonathan stood his ground and did what he did. If it was an Igbo man that is the president, he would have been afraid. But Jonathan was not afraid. He did it. He did more than you saw. There were other things he did behind the scene. If you saw or knew them, you would have said oh this is a wonderful man. Thirdly, even military presidents like Babangida ruled for eight years, two terms in our democratic setting. In the case of Gowon, he ruled for nine years. He didn’t even want to go. He was chased away, when they knew he didn’t want to go. What about Obasanjo? Then, why shouldn’t Jonathan complete his two terms?
But there are so many odds against him. He doesn’t have the support of the North and the South West. Also, most of the political elite especially from the aforementioned areas are arrayed against him. How do you think he will overcome these obstacles?
He is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces and he is a sitting president. If he doesn’t want to come back, that is his business. Did you tell you that Northerners are not supporting him? Don’t listen to a few people in Abuja who are the elite. Go to the villages and ask them. They are supporting Jonathan. And Jonathan himself must make sure that he wins because he is the president and Commander-in-Chief. Everybody is expecting him to win. Moreover he is doing so well. If you travel through the Nigerian Airports you see how the airports are now. It is like what you see in Europe. When these people were there, what did they do? Let’s talk of the ones we have seen. For the first time, Nigeria is talking about railways after so many years. Though none has crossed the South East, but we are seeing them even on television. These people who are saying that Jonathan cannot be President after 2015, what has he done that is worse than what others did? Let them tell you objectively why they don’t want Jonathan outside being selfish or tribalistic.
Look at the rebasing of the economy. The economy is coming back gradually. It is a gradual thing. But I don’t support all this things. I want the economy of Nigeria to be in shamble. I want everything in Nigeria to turn up side down, because I want Biafra. If these things work out well, it cannot favour me. It cannot favour my struggle. The only thing Boko Haram people are doing that I don’t like is killing innocent people. It pains me. In a way it tried to justify my ground on non-violence. Nigerians can now feel and know the difference between violence and non-violence. If MASSOB had been violent, it would have been like Boko Haram. You know, sometimes you may start up something and it grows beyond your control. What is happening in the North today has gone beyond the control of those who started it. Don’t mind these politicians shouting today, “arrest these boys.” They were the people who started it. But these boys are no longer taking instructions from them. They are distancing themselves from them now because of the atrocities they are committing. If you arm somebody, that person is no longer under your control again, because he has the gun.
So they armed these boys against us and these boys have outgrown them. And you see what is happening in Nigeria today? Nigeria must divide. You see the National Conference? They say no go area? God is against subjugation. You subjugate people against the will of God. Why? You want a conference where people can talk, and you place a no-go area; out of bad intention. If there is nothing to hide, you allow people to discuss everything. No go area is because there is injustice. And God hates injustice, That conference will never see the light of the day. Watch out. At the end of the day, it will never achieve success, because ab initio, it is tainted with injustice, illegality by that no-go area directive. They are still talking at the committee levels. let them come to the plenary, all the decisions will be jettisoned. Why? Because Northern interest versus Southern interest, Muslim versus Christianity. Watch out. Nigeria is not for the well being of the North. God is against it. That is why it can never work. You know what Boko Haram is doing now, it was what happened in Egypt. God hardened the heart of Pharaoh. God has hardened the heart of Abuja people, the seat of power. I am not talking about Jonathan. Remember, when God hardened the heart of Pharaoh, God did not dislike Pharaoh. God wanted the Egyptians to suffer but was using Pharaoh. As the Commander-in-Chief, he wanted the Egyptians to suffer because of how they ill-treated the Israelites. Do you know the story of how our women were hijacked and taken into captivity by Federal soldiers after the civil war? Now, terrorists are hijacking little innocent school children. A replica of what our people suffered is what is happening in the North today.
The best thing is to divide Nigeria, because these things will become uncontrollable in future. You can never stop it, because of the injustices meted against the Igbo. The consequences are what we are seeing today.
The entity called Nigeria is ab initio an illegality, according to some documents, because the amalgamation was not signed. Are you aware?
That is true. Absolutely. If there was any document sustaining the amalgamation of Northern and Southern protectorate, they would have brought it out since Lord Lugard, I learnt it was the wife or girlfriend that coined the word Nigeria from Niger. It was done because they saw that they were not getting enough resources from the North to complement that of the South. So, he said let’s put the two together. An unfair behaviour to the South. He did not invite people to ask whether they want it or not. He did it by fiat for the purpose of his own administration. Then people are coming today to say what they do not know about.
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